Goals : what we need to achieve.

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Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by 7ama9a on Fri 11 Dec - 17:21

Dear mates.
  
   I create this topic to focus on our goals to achieve, it means when we decide the disponibilities for teamings, we need to put some goals to achieve in our games. (sorry for my english).
   
   I will be the first : 
      - we need to learn when to disengage in teamfights.
      - we try to listen, follow our lead and let him decide what to do in the game.
      - most of the time we play without goals in the game, so we have to fix that.

   I stop for now, so we need to focus this week-end on these 3 points and good luck for us.


PS : of course you can add or remove some goals.

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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by Soufflenuit on Fri 11 Dec - 18:01

I agree with the first point as very first one :
There are countless times when a trade is way worth and ones want to push their advantage and thus lose it by overextending to much. It's the same problem when you push after an ace and don't retreat on time, etc.
It also includes give up an objective, like a drake for example, on time : firstly not to take the risk of being contest, worse having drake stolen, and in the best case, succeed to letting the drake reset instead of offering him to the ennemy team.

This is directly related to the second point, follow the lead. I think this is the best way we have to coordinate. It implies a few things. Firstly, i'd need to shut the fuck up, cause i speak too much, though it's rarely meaningless. Hearing to the others isn't a big deal i think for us, we have quite a good communication. But i think (think, only) that Konsti should talk more. He said thursday, he should have told us to retreat and did not cause he found it obvious. It's an example, but he should be supposed to be the voice we always follow, no matter if it's risky, weird, or whatever. It means a huge responsability for you, Konsti, but i think it's very important point we got here. =)

Third point, also well related : learn to get objectives. We might all have seen how the first tower in pro games fall between 7 and 10 min, sometimes earlier, after an 'all-call' on top or bottom lane. Without aiming at such plays, we should learn some basics about taking drakes, towers, inhibs, pushing lanes (packing, freezing...) and setting the place in view of a spawning objective (nashor/drake). Also, we'd need to look a bit more about the rift's herald, which is often neglected though he could be useful/dangerous, imo.

So i totally with both the idea of this topic and the ideas you said in the topic Wink. They are narrowly related and I do think that we should focus on them this week end.
I have no more ideas to submit, that are as important as the only told one.
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by sqAree on Fri 11 Dec - 19:09

Yep, that's one of these things: In some situations everyone actually was aware we shouldn't fight but someone gets caught and the intuition is to fight then, to do at least damage, etc.

But if we are coordinated, we can disengage way more situations than we think. I see in pro games how they can escape / retreat in no time.

For the second point, I was the very first one to tell the critique about me, and it's true. I already did progress though, especially in our ranked team match yesterday I was giving instructions every few seconds (doesn't matter it was obvious most of the time xD). I know, in the normal games I tend to just shut up, but I can also train there.

About the "goals": The key here is to have more vision. In general when we don't have vision I won't tell anyone to go for an objective or a teamfight. Decision are to be made after seeing what's going on.

EDIT: I forgot to add this: Johann, you say you have to stfu more and it was something I would have talked about anyway. I only refer to the "complain" talk aka "cmon how did he kill me", you do it a bit excessively. For everything else you can talk, more information means also a better base for me to do decisions.
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by Soufflenuit on Fri 11 Dec - 21:49

Alright, I think we got something with this topic, really nice to have a place to discuss about the goals to achieve ! =)

I agree with coordinated retreat, and also for vision. Vision is something we have to get soon and nicely. I'll soon make a topic about the places to ward in which situation, pink etc, i think it might be interesting. Thing is that even before being fullstuff we may have all slots taken and are not able to buy pinks. then use trinket nevertheless, (i think there should never be 2 stacks in the trinket slot, always 1 max). And i think we simply have to finish the game before we get fullstuff. In some we haven't the choice cause we're behind and slowly catching up, so we just need to hold on and not hurry up. But if we are ahead, we must win fastly, not to lose our advantage by coming to the late game, where we'll be locked down by the 6 slots max and the level 18 max. But this is also another point.

For what comes to me, I spoke about the fact that i was telling to much things about what to take and to do where and when and why and how, etc. In fact i only realize right now how i was yesterday, i'm really sorry for my raging, it was noisy and useless. Thanks god i'm allowed to complain and apologize about this as long as i want on the forum xD. Seriously, i didn't realize, for real, what i was doing. Next time, if it happens again (i hope not) tell me immediatly, and i'll stop and focus. It's not only useless, it prevents me (and you, i guess) from focusing well, and you are right konsti, it also pollute the vocal and cover other informations which are always more important. Sorry again for this, and thank you very much Konsti for making me know !
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by sqAree on Mon 14 Dec - 21:23

So, in regards to our last session:

The coordinated retreat absolutely didn't work at all, even with our planning. There is basically a difference between "disengage" (we use it to cancel a fight or prevent us from initiating) and the general awareness that fighting would be a bad idea.
Because often enough disengaging just wasn't possible because one or more of us got caught by surprise in the jungle and similar things.
In general I will try to make sure that everyone knows if we can fight or not, at any time of the game.

For the vision, we are a bit clueless in general for now, so it has priority to teach us when/how to ward properly (I think Johann knows about when and where, while I can contribute some things about how).

In the few games we played so far I noticed that we can actually nicely keep our advantage and win the game properly if we have one. It's all about doing no mistake, because when having an advantage we can pressure and freely take the right objectives in the right order to ensure victory.
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by Soufflenuit on Fri 18 Dec - 16:38

Retreat indeed didn't work, but I think it's more difficult than it seems. We need a rigorous concentration about where ennemies are, and overall what they can do. Whenever we are not sure that one doesn't have flash, just assume he does have it. So always keep in mind that this one can grab, this one can ult, this one have a massive speedbuff thanks to his item, etc.
Also, whatever is not sure or only approximative, always expect the worse.
In general I will try to make sure that everyone knows if we can fight or not, at any time of the game.
I'm not sure it's possible, but yeah, it would be great, until we're able to know it by ourselves.

Yeah, i'll post someting about warding, soon i hope (probably at some moment in the inc geeking we)

Yep, once we are ahead, actually we do not do too much failures. But surely we can improve in this. o/
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by sqAree on Tue 22 Dec - 17:25

I don't want to pressure you, just wondering for the post about warding as you said you planned to do it at your geeking weekend? ^^

I think for now it can be very useful to make sure to only ward as a group because we never know where the enemies might be (and especially not before having warded to be honest).
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Re: Goals : what we need to achieve.

Post by Soufflenuit on Wed 23 Dec - 21:44

Oh, you are totally right, i forgot about this.
I'll do my best. ^^
(but the upcoming day will be tough, i suppose Mad)
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