Jungle - Question

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Jungle - Question

Post by sqAree on Sat 12 Dec - 6:10

Hi, I'm someone who has no clue of the jungle and I think someone can answer this question pretty easily ; I want to know where every jungler starts (blue/red), his/her first 5 camps and how much hp they usually have after that.

I don't know what is really played in the jungle nowadays, so I just give an example list, feel free to add champs if you think it's needed:

Fizz
Nidalee
Ekko
Evelynn
Kha'Zix
Master Yi
Nocturne
Rengar
Shaco
Lee Sin
Volibear
Diana
Rek'Sai
Aatrox
Gragas
Hecarim
Jax
Kayle
Olaf
Pantheon
Shyvana
Skarner
Udyr
Vi
Warwick
Wukong
Xin Zhao
Fiddlesticks
Elise T_T
Kindred
Nunu
Amumu
Jarvan IV.
Shen
Nautilus
Maokai
Rammus
Sejuani
Zac
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Re: Jungle - Question

Post by Soufflenuit on Sun 13 Dec - 2:29

Firstly, in the current meta, jungler almost always start at botlane, unless they really need the toplane buff.
Only massive mana user will need blue first, it means very few jungler. Among them, i would put Fiddlestick of course, also maokai, shaco, and perhaps nunu. These are the champion who absolutely need to start at blue. Every else jungler might don't care. Those who absolutely need red buff are those who have a tough start, and can't relie on their only spells because of long cooldowns or lack of damage : mostly it means junglers who basically are not meant to be some, therefore there are non in your list.

So for the starting place, of course, first junglers can do krogs before red, and gromp before blue, it can't really be predicted. Beside, some absolutely have to start at blue (but of course, there can always be some weird cases), the ones I said. After this first buff, the route the jungler takes is very various. Mostly, he will want to do one other camp, then the second buff, because then he's level 3 and has a double buff which is helpful. The in-between camp might not be needed if the jungler didn't start at the buff but at the side/camp (gromp or krogs), if he didn't not, he will do either wolves or raptors (knowing that he won't have the smite, he just used one for the first buff and will keep the incoming second stack for the second buff, which ever it is).
This is a common route I personnaly do, but of course, everything can happen. In the case of a big opportunity or great need on one lane, the jungler will adapt. One may even not know this for the jungler can have changed his mind before appearing on lane. If he's low, he can also immediatly recall, which is mostly avoided cause of 1) the doublebuff waste, and 2) the gold is not sufficient to buy the jungler upgrade. If he has to recall at this stake, it's because the jungler is either bad/new as player, either weak/unknown as champion, or just have wrong runes/masteries.
This mean that around 3'20 / 3'30, it's the moment where the jungler will be level 3, will a certain ammount of life, and then will have to chose between staying or recalling - mostly he will stay. Then nothing is certain anymore. He may look immediatly for a gank opportunity, so midlane in any case, and either top if he started bottom buff, or bot if he started with top buff.
If there is no opportunity, he will more likely carry on the next camp or do the scuttle, because he needs two more camps to be able to buy his jungle upgraded item and get his enhanced smite.
So what may be interesting to you, Konsti, is that the first risk of gank is at 3:35. If there is a gank before, it's an exception, the ganker will not have his level 3, etc. At 3:35, midlaner will likely be level 4 or on the edge between lvl 3 and 4 (remember : one wave + one minion for level 2, the rest of wave two + three minions of wave three for level 3, rest of wave three + entire wave four for level 4, and level 6 around 6'00).

Now, the few things that i can tell about which champ is likely to do what :

Fizz : fizz will be midlife if he wants to gank at 3:35, he will certainly chose to jungle a bit more before recalling for his item, unless there is an emergency somewhere. he would rather start blue, but he can start red. So he can gank from top or bot at 3'35.
Nidalee : nidalee can be full life after her second buff, and then be able to gank at 3'25. red or blue doesn't matter for her, so she might come from top or bot.
Ekko : haven't tried him out as jungler, but i assume he needs his spells and thus his mana. I assume that as Fizz does, he can start red or blue though, and be around midlife at 3'35.
Evelynn : It's been a while, since i've played her, so i don't know if the latest changes have impacted her jungling. Beside, as she can equally be played ap or ad, i'm a bit unsure of what to say about her. But i think it doesn't matter this much in early, so i'd say, she'd rather start at blue, but doesn't have to. and she should be around 75% health at 3'35.
Kha'Zix : You need good runes to get a clean early jungling with Kha. I'm a bit unconfortable with him, because i find him a bit squishy, but i think he can end up with 75% his HP at 3:35. He doesn't care blue or red.
Master Yi : He will rather take red buff first, and might end up with almost 100% hp, according to runes/masteries/etc, and the way he uses his W and pots.
Nocturne : Pauline will tell you better about him than I would, but he doesn't really care for red or blue. he has sustain on passive, and has good stats, so i think he can end up at 3'35 with at least 75% of hp.
Rengar : of course, this one, will rather go red than blue (although the cdr could fits with his passive, but still) he can manage to be upon 50% his hp at 3'35, perhaps even 75%.
Shaco : he can easily be full life at 3'35, but will rather start with blue, because he will have placed many boxes before the buff even spawn and thus lost most his mana. As he can can problemless solo the buff, he's always able to start at blue.
Lee Sin : he will alwso want to start at red if possible, of course. he will surely finish upon 75% his health, or even 100% at 3'35
Volibear : he needs fitting runes, but he can start at blue or red and finish at 3'35 at level with 75% his health, or more.
Diana : i haven't played her at all, neither as jungler, nor in any other role, but by what i know about her, she could finish at 50% her hp quite easily with pots, at 3'35. She would rather start with blue buff.
Rek'Sai : she will of course start at red if she can. she will finish around 75% her hp, or more if she has nice runes (lifesteal and AS)
Aatrox : he will start red if he can, and will rarely finish with 100% his hp,rather something like 75% cause he has not enough AS and W at the beginning. But he just needs to do the scuttle to be full life again, so have care.
Gragas : he'd better start blue cause he needs mana, for cc and damage on monsters. thanks to his passive he can end up with at least 75% his life at 3'35.
Hecarim : i haven't played him a lot. I think both red and blue are important for him, maybe rather blue, since he'll need mana cause his sustains depends on the W and his damage on a spammed Q. his W allows him to be upon 75% or even 100% his health at 3'35.
Jax : he can start at blue or red without care, but he might need both quickly at start. he'll be between 75% and 100% his hp at 3'35.
Kayle : i don't know her either, but i think she'd need the blue first, if possible. as i don't know her ratio on heal, i cannot tell how much life she might have on her level three, but i assume she will certainly not be full, and hardly at 75%.
Olaf : he will rather do red, i think, since his W doesn't cost so much mana (10% his mana max on lvl 1). This imba life sustain allows him to easily finish with 100% of his life after the second buff.
Pantheon : as sustain, he got his passive. but to trigger his passive, he must use his spells, and it means he needs mana. Beside, his spells don't do much damage at all at start, espacially against non champion target (his E), so red could be as useful as blue. he may end up with a rough 75%, i'd say, if he manage to use passive and pots well.
Shyvana : i haven't jungled with her, but i know her strength, so i think she'll have at least 75% hp left at 3'35. Of course, she'd do redbuff first if she can.
Skarner : Skarner may be the most unknown champion in this list, i have really no clue, i'm sorry. In act i haven't even checked him since his rework ; mea culpa. u_u
Udyr : he can quite often achieve 100% his life at 3'35. Like jax, he can make a great use of the blue (he needs loads of mana) and also the red (his Q's AS fits really nice with the dot), so he can start with one or the other, but will need both fast.

Vi : vi has a nice shield which has the perfect CD for her to have it on every camp she does. so she can easily have 75% life left at 3'35 with some lifesteal runes.
Warwick : i'm not sure it' necessary to tell you, but he will 100% sure finish his second buff with 100% hp, except... well except exceptions (either the player's rank, or the player's pc is made with Wood). I personnaly rather begin with the blue, cause otherwise you are quite short with your mana. but i guess, he can manage to jungle with a red at start.
Wukong : i haven't jungled with him a lot, but i know you need some mechanics not to lose to much life. you have to kite, to use your AA reset with Q, to swap agro with your clone, etc, and use your AS buff on E wisely. If the jungler is good, and let's assume he is, he can easily have upon 75% left at 3'35.
Xin Zhao : the key for a nice sustain on xin zhao is AS, to trigger his W. if he does have, he can have almost all his life at 3'35. He can imo start regardless at blue or red, and should be at 75% of his life, maybe more, at 3'35.
Fiddlesticks : i hope everybody knows he has the best sustain ever in jungle, even more than ww or aatrox, so he will be at 100% life for sure as long as he knows how to play and has mana. he'll start at blue of course.
Elise T_T : i love this champ but have never played her (unless in aram) in regard for you <3, so i can't tell much things about her. i think don't need mana so much, cause she more relies on her spider form (sorry) to jungle. She got damage, resist stats and sustain, so she'll end up beyon 75% hp, i think.
Kindred : i haven't played him at all as jungler, so i can' tell anything at all. well, ok, maybe his Q spamming will need mana, so he might prefer blue. but his life at 3'35 will depend on the kiting skill of the player, so he will end up between 25% health and 75%, i think.
Nunu : he has a nice sustain/damage, but need mana, so i think he'd rather do blue first. he'll have around 75% or more on his level 3.
Amumu : everyone knows him and has played him, so i suppose you won't be surprised if I say he'd make a great use of a blue as first buff. And as he has no sustain but good resist stats, i think he'll be around 75% hp at 3'35.
Jarvan IV : j4 actually has no reason to have an easy jungling, he only have a AS buff. but his stats make everything. he has damn damage and resist, so with nice runes, he will still have 75% hp on his level 3, at least. He can start either blue or red.
Shen : i haven't really seen shen as jungler, and i can't really tell anything for him... he doesn't really need blue, so will rather start with blue. he got nice armor and sustain, so will perhaps succed to keep 75% his health at 3'35, even more i think with a bit AS in runes.
Nautilus : he has nice armor, massive shield, aoe spell , and nice basic damage on them. with only a bit AS, he can end up almost full life at 3'35. He needs mana ;so he can start at red but may be short on mana afterward and whil soon need bluebuff.
Maokai : he can finish beyond 75% life, thanks to his passive sustain, and his easy first buff (preparation with his E things). he will need blue buff, but can also deal with a red first.
Rammus : he is the absolute master of armor, so will take only very few damage. he has a nice cleaning, so with correct runes, he will still have beyond 75% his hp. he can start at red or blue, but still needs mana.
Sejuani : i've heard she has a slow jungling (by pauline), but still have aoe spells, and some basic damage. added to good basic stats, she can keep 75% hp, i think on level 3. she could start either with blue or red buff.
Zac : i don't have and never played him, but according to what i know, he has a nice sustain on his passive, so may still have 75% of his hp at 3'35, maybe more.

Soo, i hope it has made sense, a bit. At last but not least, I'd like to add that when i say 'he will still have XXX hp', it's meant as 'he should have more than XXX hp'.
Of course it's always based on estimation or personnal experience, so it may not be a permanently reliable value.
(pls forgive writing mistakes, etc, i'm a bit tired ^^)
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